FB Info: Royal Families and Problematic Issues Revealed........
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- You, Nadine Aquino, Theresa Keohunani Taber, Kahala Lei Azuma Maui and20 others like this.
Tim Reis I could be wrong, bit I think the changes made by the Monarch and Kuhina NUI were lawful due onto a "loophole". It hinged on the wording.
The thing to be aware of was the intent.
The Kuhina NUI was removed and the " loophole" was removed? The problem was fixed? That's good, right?
What were some of the other changes?
Isaac Harp Please see the two recently uploaded files in the group Files. One is the meeting minutes of the Privy Council mentioned in my loooong comment above, and the other is a Defense of the 1864 Constitution's legality by Dr. Keanu Sai. Mahalo, Paka- Tim Reis If we stick with the 1852 Constitution then we would need to address the issues that Lot Kapuaiwa dealt with, regarding Article 45 of the 1852 Constitution.
Apparently, there was an issue with Article 62 of the 1864 Constitution, regarding eligible voters.
Based on the history and events that unfolded, I suspect that those that opposed what Lot Kapuaiwa proposed were trying to oppress the Kanaka Ma'oli voice.
We could split hairs on this for a long time. Aren't there more important issues to split hairs on?
Not to say we should not scrutinize everything, but what was the negative of the 1864 Constitution? What is the positive of keeping the 1852? - Isaac Harp Aloha Tim Reis, If you would like to compare the 1864 Constitution with the 1852 Constitution as amended 1856, both are located in the group Files. Aloha, Paka
- Isaac Harp Aloha Tim Reis, We will "split hairs" as long as necessary to come to agreement on what Constitution qualifies as the lawful Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom. Our government has been out of order for over one and a quarter century so a few days of "splitting hairs" to achieve what we agree is lawful will not the end of our world cause. If anything, it will give us peace of mind that we tried to do the best we could to follow our own laws, as history may one day reflect. Mahalo, Paka
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- Isaac Harp Aloha Tim Reis, I am no legal expert so I would have to defer to recognized experts such as Dr. Keanu Sai, who defends the 1864 Constitution as the lawful Constitution. If we could get agreement from Amelia Gora and Kumu Kanawai, I believe we can move...See More
Leigh Cideny Keonekaulana Case Paka, let me know what you find. I will also go there & store those files on my hard drive... Aloha/span>
Keone
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Ron Cawthon There is no doubt that the 1887 Constitution was coerced, nor is there any issue there were mass petitions by the people of our nation to change it back to the 1864 constitution, nor that Liliuokalani in consultation with the Legislature did indeed Draft, and was prepared to Proclaim a revised constitution, similar to 1864. We all understand a bunch of monkeys made a bunch of noise and then claimed they overthrew the Kingdom.
The core issue becomes did the 1887 constitution make what happened on 1/17/1893 lawful? The facts are it did not, there were some significant changes made in the 1887 constitution, but not any that would allow, or authorize 18 treasonous monkeys, to attempt to destroy the Monarchial form of government.
My mana’o is the constitution revised Liliuokalani, the Legislature, as demanded by the majority of people in these islands, that was ready to be enacted on 1/14/1893, should and will become the revised constitution of our nation.
The issue is about process, unintended consequences, and sticking with the laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom. It seems to me there have been many groups feeling like they have some sort of ability to simply magically change things they don’t like that happened during the Hawaiian Kingdom, that they become judge, jury and lawmakers.
Wrap your heads around that we can only go back to the rights, laws of these lands, and constitution the day of, or the day before the crime scene, namely 1/17/1893, and then move forward, according to our laws, with any revisions of our laws or constitution. Just saying…- Ron Cawthon FYI Microsoft Word has a really sweet function where you can compare any changes between 2, or perhaps even 3 documents. While I am not any technical expert, I have done this with the 1864 and 1887 constitutions, there are changes, and you can see them...See More
- Ron Cawthon , except as to Article 62, which, according to our recollection, did not contain any property qualification for voters for representatives.
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- Isaac Harp Aloha Ron, I think we need to focus on reaching agreement on moving forward under either the 1852 Constitution or the 1864 Constitution as no other Constitution beyond that has any legitimacy. Because the 1864 Constitution was the Constitution utilize...See More
- Isaac Harp Aloha Tim Reis, you can view a copy of the Draft 1893 Liliuokalani Constitution here: http://www.pixi.com/~kingdom/1893.htmlAlthough it is view-able it is not "usable" in our effort to restore our government. It will be valuable for consideration when our government is ready to amend whatever Constitution we agree on to restore our government. Mahalo, PakaA 2. All men are free to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences; but this sacred privilege hereby secured shall not be so construed as to justify acts of licentiousness or practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the Kingdom.PIXI.COM
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- Amelia Gora good luck...those who were lawbreakers were conspirators since wm lee ...btw sai was also paid by oha 4 a book project ...
- Isaac Harp Aloha Amelia Gora, Although you may view Keani Sai as scary, could you please put that aside and consider his defense of the 1864 Constitution, as well as the fact that the Kingdom operated under the 1864 Constitution for over a decade? Mahalo for trying because if you can agree it will help us to move forward together. My greatest hope in this effort is that we can move forward together because together we have mana! Aloha, Paka
- Amelia Gora the only part lacking is the temp voted in positions representing the people and our protectorates all in place already....the truebloods r in place
- Tim Reis Amelia, thank you for sharing your opinion.
In my opinion, he has made it possible for us to have this discussion, by educating our lahui and the International community.
Yes, his dissertation is based on the works of all aloha aina before him. It is not his alone.
Ko'u mana'o
Mahalo
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- Tim Reis Amelia, thank you for sharing your opinion.
In my opinion, he has made it possible for us to have this discussion, by educating our lahui and the International community.
Yes, his dissertation is based on the works of all aloha aina before him. It is not his alone.
Ko'u mana'o
Mahalo 
Kaylene Kauwila Sheldon It's important to challenge, love even the most inspiring of people & just take the strengths and peel off the rotten parts...lol, like peeling kalo 'ele'ele...- Isaac Harp Aloha Amelia Gora, Could you please elaborate on the "lacking" that you mentioned, as well as the "truebloods r in place?" Mahalo! Personally, I feel better if OHA compensates one of our own for a book project rather than paying an American for a book project that speaks of us and our history. I hope you have an opportunity to sit and kukakuka with Keanu Sai one day to hear his side of why he liberated the Ka'ai. Like us, Keanu seems genuinely concerned about what we are all concerned with, restoration of our Kingdom. Mahalo, Paka
- Ron Cawthon I have never seen a court case prior to January 17, 1893 ruled by the Courts, Legislature, the 1887 constitution was void or illegal, yes it needed to be revised, but to declare it is void becasue of folks interpetaion of events, is clearly outside Hawaiian Kingdom Law. The only remedy at any level according to international law is first reactivate what was there, work on changes later, as prescribed by law.
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- Ron Cawthon Whatever was in place on January 16, 1893 in the Hawaiian Kingdom, is what is in place now, nothing can be changed, for now, some folks think their ideas and theories are law, not what Hawaiian Kingdom laws says, there is a process, cant make crap up as we go along...
- Amelia Gora Isaac Harp I invited Keanu to the Hawaiian Genealogical Society meeting and he had a crowd of more than a 100....... so, have watched his activities over time.........he did admit their taking of the Kaai and gave detail after detail with his cousin Kalama...the good looking guy that has passed and he came to the meeting with Mahealani Asing Kahau..... so in front of a large group of kupuna he admitted to the crimes......felt it was best that our people make the decision on what to do ........at the Archives he asked me when did i come out and do research....he asked was it around the time of the missing Kaai........told him yeah....and he laughed in a wierd kind of way........well his friend Donald is on the lamb still and they haven't connected in a while....my cousin Herbert Pratt was with Keanu, Donald and they started to put the Hawaiian Kingdom together and Herbert said that Keanu changed and wanted to run the whole show.....Keanu is a Correa, one of the families who helped to dethrone our Queen......haven't seen Donald a long time and he reads the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk to find out what's going on.......Keanu did spend time in jail.....Keanu was an advisor to Dexter Kaiama when helping to represent us against the State of Hawaii who sued us in court over the Crown Lands in 2011..... but the State of Hawaii are Not the land owners, they are Not related to us......Dexter Kaiama did Not properly represent us when the AG called us terrorists in court...all he did was look the other way....Dexter is a Alexander Adams desc. and his cousin Sonia apparently didn't tell him about the Trust that many of us actually own....because the House of Nobles are made up of Kamehameha's, and John Young's, Isaac Davis families....Anywayz, it was only recently that i found Kamehameha's statute law showing that the House of Nobles, Representatives are to be the caretakers of the government lands, Royal lands and the rights of native tenants have rights...which is why i posted the laws.. with the intentions of helping our people to present.....the entity state of hawaii which was the territory of Hawaii did claim that they were the "successors of the Kingdom of Hawaii" in 1912 - see PA PELEKANE case, First Circuit Court and entered in the HAWAIIAN REPORTS........... Summary: we won the case based on the Statute posted at this link and with no help from Dexter Kaiama, Keanu Sai who continues on with 'no subject matter jurisdiction'.....and with continued support given to the TMK through Protective Orders .... once again, the House of Nobles are made up of Kamehameha's descendants/heirs, and John Young's/Isaac Davis descendants and we are the heirs of Kamehameha III as well as the successors and the State of Hawaii is Not...... the 1850 Treaty of the Hawaiian Kingdom and the U.S.A. applies to ONLY the heirs and successors of Kamehameha III .....keeping in mind the HEIRS come first.....a cousin stated and to some degress threatened me in person that I was creating a danger for many of us because two of them --- cousins who appeared in Oppositions in the hearing before the U.S. Department of Interior holding the 1849/50 Treaty (see you tube) and speaking about the Treaty both got into accidents by BMW's and luckily they are o.k..........my own brother nearly got slammed by a dark blue truck.........dangerous business folks, i almost got hit by a dark blue truck while walking and jumped to the shoulder in time....... i've also had planes overhead spraying red stuff over our ulu trees and documented such through Police reports - Genocide Activities ongoing files which was assigned to me since 1998 after getting a letter from the Supreme Court Justice in Hawaii......my brother's active case is about Kekauonohi's lands..........etc........as stated before, we are the next of kin Kalola (w) of Bernice Pauahi Bishop on record - see her Probate ---- that is why i state we are the true bloods.....descendants of Kamehameha thru 4 of his children....to date found 19 children, 15 of his step children, and 3 of his hanai/adopted children and the state of Hawaii are Not related to us.... and you think i dare to trust Keanu? a military person, a suspected psyop set in place to break apart all good things...........no wayz Jose wink emoticon our people have all been injured over time which is War Crimes documented and legally we did win the case although the state pressed for costs, etc. which adds to reasons why we need Phttp://maoliworld.ning.com/forum/topics/legal-rights-of-kanaka-maoli-native-tenants-or-why-defenders-androtectorates from other countries other than the U.S., England
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- Amelia Gora some idiot Hawaiian women who defended Keanu without knowing facts truth and even their genealogies dared to confront me .....i only thought Papa Auwae's family is stupid..... they were Kamehameha's who failed to do their homework and Mataio Kekuanaoa's descendant too through his oldest son Paalua/Palua... Ron Cawthon has tried over the years to get me to say that Sonny Paalua is part of our family but NONE OF OUR FAMILIES TOOK ON THE PAALUA name..... these are the names found: Kaawa, Kauhi, Mahina (w), Uiha/Kaluauiha (w), Kekolohe/ Kekolohe Kuapuu (w)......and Mataio Kekuanaoa's LAST WIFE WAS KALIMA whose children were John Kapena (my ancestor as well as Paalua), Sam Kapena, and Umiokalani (w)....... so, we are surrounded by Pirates, pillagers, frauds, identity thieves.....and the Hawaiian Genealogy Society came together based on genocide issues....questions asked: do you have stories of how your families were killed, beaten, thrown on Kalaupapa? .......and did you know that Keanu Said did say that there was no genocide.......go figger and read the issues of genocide that many people in the World now know because the words out....we are surrounded by Pirates, etc. theiolani.blogspot.com for more info or http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/GORA8037 aloha.
- Amelia Gora oh, there's a reward for turning in the thieves of the Kaai which contains several of our ancestors iwi....and even the treasonous claimant to the throne thru the Kawananakoa's is putting out a hefty amount..........the FBI should also be on it to arrest Keanu Sai and his compadres who took the Kaai to the Big Island or so they claim... some kanaka maoli from Molokai claim that artifacts were removed, sold, etc........what? conspiracies among the Hawaiians as well?...too much.......go figger........ our tutus take carehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjuRuOFBBHA
- Amelia Gora Pertaining to the Hawaiian Government: Explanation about the Hawaiian Government in the case REX vs. Joseph Booth (1863) HAWAIIAN REPORTS ---- S.B. Dole et. als. started to say that the "last of the Kamehameha's" ended with Kamehameha V, King Lunalilo ....SB Dole's article appeared in 1873..... anywayz read the past issues of the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk or google the subject matter ..... The House of Nobles exists....we the ones sued by the State...we the only ones on the Whitehouse website too ...looked for others, Noa, Sai, etc....and they NOT there! ....We are also the Sovereign's heirs and successors....so two parts of the government intact....then the people: those who signed the KUE Petition were added to the Hawaiian Kingdom/Kingdom of Hawaii/Ko Hawaii Pae Aina/He Mokupuni Pae Aina o Hawaii/Hawaiian Islands/ Hawaiian archipelago....lacking is the VOTED IN TEMPorary House of Representatives who may include non kanaka maoli but must be Hawaiian subjects, Not Americans, Not foreigners who represent the rights of native tenants.......pending is the Protectorate picks....nations who have treaties in place, etc. My position as Acting Liaison of Foreign Affairs was voted in by members of the House of Nobles. The Judicial Tribunal has documented the Pirates, Pillagers, frauds utilizing the 1850 Treaty of the Hawaiian Kingdom and the U.S.A., Article XIV. So, the lacking areas are the 2 : 1) House of Representatives and 2) Protectorates........ yep.. gonna take a lot of aloha to change the way things are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU3u5UDjYeY
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- another discusssion:Final opportunity to weigh in on Question #3 before we move on.THE QUESTION:
Do we agree to elect Representatives as described under 1884 Compiled Laws of the Hawaiian Kingdom, ARTICLE XXXII-OF THE ELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVES, ELECTION DISTRICTS §780?DISCUSSION:
In accordance with the law, we can have a total of 40 elected Representatives of the people, of which the distribution of 26 has already been determined by law.The remaining 14 shall be distributed according to the 2014 US census distribution of Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders. Additional Representatives shall represent the district(s) with the largest population increase(s).Since everyone has had a couple of days to review the information shared by members of the group, including myself, we should all be able to respond with a simple yes or no. Those who wish to respond please do. We will move on to another question on Monday.Mahalo for your participation in this process! Paka
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Cherish HaHa Yes...
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Kumu Kanawai Point of order. Before we make complicated decisions not applying to us. We need to know who is in our body politics, and what our rights are. And to eliminate the false dicotomy, like Mivan Lam said at manoa. See YouTube. Article 4.
All men shall have the right, in an orderly and peaceable manner to assemble, without arms, to consult upon the common good; give instructions to their Representatives; and to petition the King or the Legislature for redress of grievances. True alo-ha (life-upfront) in your face petition with our names on it, and not hiding in a ballot box. like the. Ku e and Liliuokalani's constitution, our Queen answered her subjects petition for a new constitution. Which should be considered a valid constitution, enacted or not all of our acquired rights are cumulative.
Susan Rosier Yes Kumu
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